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i want my parents to take me away from my home while my husband is at work. im 33.
People like in the top secret make me absolutely sick. What if their mother had decided to abort them? They wouldn’t be alive today. They ruined someone’s life. That person could have grown up to be an inspiring artist, a talented musician, a policeman that makes the streets safer. There are people in this world spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant or have a family, and they are wasting that life. There is nothing wrong with carrying the baby through to term and then giving it up for adoption. Then that person would have had a life. If they were too stupid and irresponsible to get pregnant when they didn’t want a baby in the first place, then they should be the ones paying for it, not that innocent child. I hope they know, they are a murderer.
how can you expect to inspire love of a child with comments of hate? this exemplifies the pervasive negativity and shame that makes people fear bringing new life to this world. love. love. love.
How dare anyone judge a woman for exercising her right to choose? Until you are in that situation STFU! better to abort than leave another kid in another orphanage growing up without parents because people would rather throw money away on fertility clinics than adopt!
I suppose you know what the situation was for you to leap out and claim irresponsibility to get pregnant. What tends to annoy me is this whole “give it up for adoption” crap. Adaption homes aren’t magical they do not guarantee a child a home, at some point and time those kids will become a bit too old and will have to either move into a group home with other teenagers or move out into their own. There are numerous reasons why people can’t adopt a person nor a pet for that matter. It costs money, states giving money or giving money because you have a dependent living with them isn’t always going to be enough. Fail to realize that even if they were to become adopted there is a good chance of child abuse or the parents not wanting them anymore. Quit preaching into someone else’s life. If you’re not willing to raise the kid yourself or be of an assistance then STFU.
I do have to say I kinda agree with Jill. I mean, I’m not saying it in those terms but, that poor child will never know the joys of life. It is a sad affair that people are to irresponsible to be “safe” and they kill another human being for their own error. If you can’t pay then don’t play.
I grew up in an orphanage. It wasn’t a great experience but I never would choose death over growing up in a group home. Murder is murder, plain and simple.
I’ll tell you what, I’ve never had an abortion, but I wouldn’t regret it if I did. As for women who can’t have children of their own, that’s really not my obligation.
I wish there was a like button for this one.
I was adopted and then was sexually abused. For a long time, I would have rather been dead.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, you sanctimonious ass
I was raped by someone I loved deeply, and became pregnant at 16, and had an abortion.
I don’t consider myself “irresponsible”.
I’m proud to say I’m fully pro-choice. I can’t agree with people using abortion as a contraception, but sometiimes things don’t go the way you wanted/hoped.
You can get as high and mighty as you like and claim it’s ‘wrong’, or you can reduce it to simple fact and say ‘it’s just a cluster of cells until it reaches a certain age’, but I don’t think anyone has the right to pass judgement.
That’s the thing about personal decisions: They’re personal. We get to make them for OURSELVES.
I agree with Matt, the ability to make the choice to have an abortion or not is private and should be the decision of the mother. I personally would not choose to have an abortion, but I cannot say for sure since I have never been in that situation. Plus, if you are pro life and get pregnant, you don’t have to get an abortion. You can send your child to an orphanage–where there is no guarantee they will ever be adopted and if they are there is no guarantee the family is a good one. The side affects are not only for the child either–abortion can be a very emotionally scarring experience for the mother, driving some to depression, and insanity. Abortion just becomes more dangerous if it is illegal–women who are desperate enough will still find some way to get an abortion. So since it will happen anyways, why not make it safe and in an environment where the mother’s life can be safe.
I wish someone had aborted Jill – How can she pass judgement on a situation and a person she know nothing about – The girl had her reasons and they are no doubt personal to her and should be respected.
Jills comment “If they were too stupid and irresponsible to get pregnant when they didn’t want a baby in the first place” Is the icing on the cake for an ignorant small minded idiot like Jill.
Again does she know the situation in which the woment got pregnant? or does she think that for example everone who dares to need an abortion just got pregnant, drunk in the back seat of some car and are thus irresponsible?
Jill your an idiot – shut your face
Having been faced with the decision, I can’t the woman who sent in the first secret, but I can say that after feeling my baby growing inside of me and having that connection, I could never even consider making that decision. I could never consider adoption either. I lost my son because of medical problems I have that make it unlikely for me to ever have a full term pregnancy. Everytime I hear of an abortion or someone with a child that doesn’t deserve to be a parent, I can’t help but wish I could be a mother to that child. Think of those of us who may never have the chance that you threw away. We’re out there, and I’m sure there are many who would have been overjoyed to care for your child and give him or her a life.
I agree with Jill, no matter how miserable a life is, is it not worth denying someone that opportunity to live. What if your mother had decided she didn’t want you and aborted, do you really want that to happen to another person?
At the same time, though, it is difficult to judge the mother as an individual with no information about her situation, because there is the classic situation where abortion has always been legal– when it endangers the life of the mother. We do not know that isn’t true– perhaps it is the best decision because although she gave up the life of her child she was still able to live. I think it unlikely, but possible.
In the end, abortion is murder, a fetus is a person, but there are some times that abortion is necessary and judgements are pretty petty if they are made based on assumptions with no real background information. And I love Jen’s comment too, because as I see it, it merely solidifies the pro-life argument.
In response to all the pro-life commenters: have any of you actually been in a horrible situation (like mine) where you’ve had to make this awful decision? Because unless you have, I would avoid slinging words like “murder” around.
I always find that everyone who is pro-life has led such a sheltered life and has never had to come into contact with rape victims who have had to make difficult choices. You know what? I’d love to be one of those people. But I’m not. I was raped. I did abort the results of that disgusting experience. Can you absolutely honestly say you would not do the same? clearly then, you have no compassion for the victim of a violent sexual crime, and are much more concerned about keeping your morals in tact.
Until you face that choice yourself, do not dare to pass judgement on others.
I will not deny that I personally have not been raped. I think it is a horrible thing, i think it is not your fault, I understand why you would want to get rid of the proof of your rape, but I still believe it to be murder. How exactly would you define murder if not by defining it as the purposeful taking of a human life? Well that fetus, by my definition at least, is a human life. If left alone it will live separately from the mother and grow to be a normal human being (in most cases at least).
I can honestly tell you that rape or no, no matter how much I did not want that baby, I could never live with myself if I aborted a child. I would never be able to have another child knowing I killed my own flesh and blood, and I know I’d feel terrible about it for the rest of my life. You say that I cannot make that decision without being in the situation, but I feel I can, because I understand that a human life is not something to be toyed with.
Frankly I feel you are using ugly weapons with your post, you make assumptions. You say that those of us who are pro lifers do not have compassion for a victim, that is absolutely untrue, I feel that rape should not happen, and it is a terrible terrible crime. The difference is that I have more compassion for a different victim than you, you see yourself as the greatest victim, a bit selfish sounding if you look at it that way, isn’t it? I see the unborn child as the greatest victim. You may have had your pride, your trust, your virginity, and lots of other things taken away. You may not trust people after this, you may fear being alone, you may feel a lot of things which no human being should have to go through. But on the other hand, the rapist did not kill you. Would you rather have been murdered by that man? You may feel all these things, but your child was never given a chance to feel these things. Who is the greater victim here?
You call the pro life people sheltered, and naive, but that is a huge assumption, I know plenty of pro-life people, besides myself, who did not come from the most favorable circumstances. They have not had it easy, many have known rape victims, although I personally have not known a rape victim (or at least if I did, I did not know that they were raped). You’re right, I cannot understand what you went through. In the same way, though, how can you understand what that unborn baby went through. What if your mother had wanted to abort you, I ask again, would you want her to be allowed to abort you by her own choice or would you want your life to be protected? I am not saying you are an evil person for believing what you believe, I am simply saying I seriously disagree with you. To quote you, we are always “slinging words like ‘murder’”, the term slinging of words tends to refer to situations in which words are misused to present a warped image– as in ‘mudslinging’ in the media. In my mind, should the usage be true, there is no slinging there. As I see it there is no question that it is murder, so how can you accuse me of slinging words? You know nothing about me, I was simply stating my opinion, yes you disagree with it, but I didn’t condemn all abortion either, there are cases where even abortion is necessary. I just see that rape is not one of them. If it will kill the mother, yes abort, if not, get rid of the baby, do what you have to, do not kill an innocent life.
“Frankly I feel you are using ugly weapons with your post, you make assumptions.”
Can you look at your own post and honestly not say the same things?!
You absolutely CANNOT understand my decision, or any other rape victims, without being in that position yourself. How dare you call me selfish. It’s easy to say “oh, I’d do x, y and z and be a fantastically moral, upstanding citizen with the higher ground looking down on those awful selfish human beings who chose to MURDER.”
To turn the argument against you – I love my mother with all my heart, and if my being here caused her the sheer anguish and disgust I felt, then NO – I wouldn’t want her to feel an ounce of the hurt I experienced. And to be frank, I wouldn’t know any different.
And now, if you say I couldn’t possibly comment since I haven’t been aborted, tell me again how you can judge me and my decisions without being raped yourself?
You’re right I cannot understand your decision because I cannot see any reason why I would end a human life. Rereading my post, I honestly do not see any negative assumptions made about you or your situation. I said that there were terrible things done to you and that you’ve gone through things that nobody should have to live through– I assume that is an assumption that you want made.
If you reread my post I mostly talk about the fetus, saying that it has a right to live, that it is the greater victim than you because whatever you had taken away from you, you did not have your life taken away. I did not say you were selfish, I did not say that you were awful, I said I believe you committed murder, but I did not condemn you for it, I know you have your reasons, and I did not say they were unreasonable even, but I do believe you are wrong.
You again condemn my use of the word murder, so I ask again, how do you define murder? I define it as the willful taking of a human life.
I can say the same thing you said about me, about your decision that you would want your mother to get rid of you if she had wanted to, it’s awful easy to say that when you’re already alive. The bottom line is that you only have to live with that child for 9 months then you never have to see it again if you don’t want to– is that 9 months worth saving a human life? I think so.
You say you would never know any different if you had been aborted, but that is an awful large assumption to make, that fetus is alive in there, I mean, I don’t see birth control as killing, because it is before that baby is conceived, but once it is conceived it is alive. How can you say for sure that it has no awareness? You are suggesting that that living baby is an inanimate thing, killing it is the same as breaking a pencil or throwing out the garbage.
You know how I know I could not abort? I know I have trouble even putting down my old dogs, my last dog had bone cancer and it was one of the hardest things I ever did, I know if I could not say goodbye to my dog very easily, a human life is so much more than that, I would be destroyed by aborting. It is essentially the same thing, only on a much larger scale, killing a dog is humane when it’s old, killing a living human being normally results in jail time, unless it’s a fetus. The thing I argue is that what is the difference between that fetus and the murder victim? You tell me what the difference is, thinking logically. I know you’ve been hurt and that’s difficult, but think logically without emotional interference and define murder for me, and give me the difference between that fetus and the murder victim.
And, to support the idea of the fetus’ right to life, we do have someone who posted earlier who grew up in the orphan system, and she still says she’s glad every day someone didn’t abort her even though they did not want her. Isn’t that enough of a reason not to abort? That it is better to exist than not to exist?
My mother almost had an abortion but just couldn’t go through with it. While I love my life and family, I still feel it was her choice. It’s a hard choice that I hope I never have to face.
To all pro life supporters with your Judgmental comments.. GO TO HELL.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
I love how you pro-choice supporters do not argue, you do not debate. You say we have no idea what we are talking about as pro-lifers and you refuse to answer any questions on which we are iffy, which perhaps would change our minds. You simply insult us “Go to Hell”, you merely give yourselves a bad name.
I have made no judgements. I have simply asked the question, what do you define as murder and it appears that nobody will answer me. So what do you define as murder? What is the difference between a fetus and a victim of murder? And what makes the rape victim a greater victim than her fetus when it comes to the final outcome?
See there is a way to make this so morally black and white its not funny. Have the women or a bystander kill the rapist as he attempts his act. I prefer it be violent, notice preps are afraid of other gang members because of what they would do to them. It’s a win win. Victim not raped, no baby to have to make a decision about and a dead rapist. Also might send a message to others of yes some bystander in the park drove a knife in your buddies kidney and coked him out. Strait up or you might be next.
Are we assuming that within the first trimester a fetus is an intellectual being that knows what’s happening to them? If so then that’s totally murder! Ha but I don’t think that’s how tactical abortions are performed. I would maybe go as far to say that said fetus may or may not be considered parasitic during the period of gestation most abortions are performed. Realism.
I definitely did not say it was intellectual, I certainly do not believe that, but we have no proof to say that being has no sense of self awareness. A dog or a cat has self awareness and I certainly would not define them as intellectual beings, but I know I feel horribly when I have to put one down. I feel that abortion is at least as bad and has no reasoning behind it to be classified as humane, in the view of the fetus at least.
At the same time I understand your point, most of the time if people weren’t so proud about abortion, I killed a human life and I’m exercising my choice about it, whoopee!, it really wouldn’t bother me. The one that really bothers me is the partial birth abortion, where you have a full term baby and the woman is going through labor, but before it is delivered the doctor sucks out it’s brain. In my mind there is nothing preventing that from being a human being. Why not just allow women to throw their babies in trashcans whenever they want, at 3 months, at 6 months, a year? When does it end, when does that baby become a human being if while delivery it is not?
So Katie, quick question here. You as what is murder if not purposly taking a life blah blah blah. So anytime you give a blow job, or a handjob, or use ANY means of birth control, are you not then murdering? You are stopping the life that may come from sperm! My thought is, if the ” baby” or fetus, could not service outside of the woman, then its not murder. You take a 3 week old fetus and put it in the real world without a growing body, and it dies, thats not really murder. The same way a male ejaculating into the toilet is not murder. SURE if he had came in a woman and it met an egg eventually there would be a baby, but who say hes a murderer for doing something so natural as to ejaculate? Of course you’ll argue that the whole nature of humans is to procreate, but every single time? you cant tell me a man should just not ejaculate unless trying to have a baby…
Do you see how ridiculous this argument is? Its the same exact notion that by aborting a child you’re choosing to end a life that COULD HAVE BEEN something. Well excuse me but you do the same anytime you choose to use a condom, or pill, or shot, or better yet just having oral sex. So yes, the way I see murder, as in doing something to someone who is actually ALIVE, is completely different than the way to look at abortion.
If you’re so life, is it becuase of a christian beleife about god and such? Then if so, if a fetus dies becuase of medical complication, a miscarage not an abortion, would you say it was gods will? How so then, if its gods will, do you not use gods will as an excuse for any murderer?
The fact of the matter is, this is a secret someone posted. They did not at all ask for your comments or Jills, or anyones for that matter. Spewing negative hateful comments on a website really isnt neccissary. If you;d like to argue over it, go to a forum meant for that matter. Have a nice day.
Also, after reading your last post, are you fucking kidding me? Third trimester abortions are not only illegal here in the US but are the smallest percentage of those done. Sure some people go down to Mexico to get one, but for those people there are clearly more issues going on in thier lives that 6months plus into the pregnancy they decide to do so.
Saying full term abortions are the only kind that really bother you is bullshit, especially when attacking a persons choice made on a post secret card. You have no idea of how she chose to do so.
What if she took the pill and just bled for weeks at a time? There is no birth included in that, so whats your argument for disagreeing? what about taking pills, or driving without a seat belt? How about exersicing too much, are all of those murder in your book? I mean, if the baby is dead before it falls out, then there isnt actually a ” birht” is there? hmmm
I’m saying those are the ones that REALLY bother me, even if I still believe the rest are murder, I do understand the grey area where people could misinterpret it.
Okay, I do not look at it from a religious standpoint at all, I am looking at it from a moral stand.
You define something that cannot live on it’s own as not alive? Well what about probiotic organisms, which depend on and help a host to survive, are those also not alive. Do you realize you are redefining a great many species of plants and animals as dead by that definition?
Also, my exboyfriend was born 4 months premature, he could not have lived on his own, his lungs were not developed enough to function and it took lots of machines and medicine to allow him to, in a medical miracle, survive. Do you define him as dead then?
Who are you to say that baby is dead? Birth control is completely different, a sperm or an egg is not a whole being, it has one half the necessary chromosomes necessary to survive. The difference is that the fetus can moves, the fetus could have fingernails, or a heartbeat. The fetus can have hiccups, the fetus experiences the world, even if it is through it’s mother. What is there in that which is not in the human experience? People depend on one another all the time, just this is a greater dependency. The fact of the matter is that an infant cannot survive on it’s own in the world after it’s born either, it needs someone to care for it, it’s just that it depends on the mother in a different way after birth. Is that one month old baby also not alive?
And by the way, miscarriage is different, miscarriage is more like someone suffering a heart attack, it isn’t murder by any definition of the word because nobody caused it, it just happened and if there is nothing that can be done about it, nothing can be done about it. Abortion is a willful action, which is what makes it murder.
I am going to repeat again, I never attacked the person, I said I believe it is murder, I wish people were not allowed to abort, but I do not hate people who do, nor do I condemn them.
One question, Katie: you said “A dog or a cat has self awareness and I certainly would not define them as intellectual beings, but I know I feel horribly when I have to put one down.” Should I assume you WOULD put them down if you felt you had to? How would that NOT be murder? Or you’re saying that a non-human being’s life, who has self awareness, can feel pain, love, fear, is less important than a feltilized egg, with no consciousness, no nervous system, no brain yet?
As I see it, putting down an animal is not murder, it may have self awareness, can feel pain, love and fear, but it is not, in the end, human. That fertilized egg, even if it does not yet have a brain, consciousness or nervous system is human. Generally throughout history it has been defined as murder if a human is killed but not if an animal is killed and I tend to stick to that definition. It is less important because that dog or cat is not going to have any great effect on this earth. That human can think on a higher level eventually, who knows, one may be aborting Einstein or Beethoven, someone who will forever impact human life. Yes I am saying it is less important, far less important.
Katie,
You have said that you have never had to go through the trauma of a rape and subsequent pregnancy so you actually have no right to speak on the matter in terms of simple conjection. I too thought that I would, and could, never have an abortion (though I always held that it was personal choice). Then I was raped by a close friend of 11 years. Did you know that a mother’s personal attitude while pregnant will effect the development of the fetus? If that baby grows inside of you while you live in depression and hatred, your baby will come out with problems that cannot be corrected and can carry into the rest of their lives. Some of us do not have the luxury of perfectly sound and resilient minds that can handle this type of scarring event. Would you rather condemn the mother to possible suicide and the unborn child to developmental problems instead of helping a living, breathing being’s existence be saved. I mourn my unborn child every single year! But do not, for one second, think that I regret my decision or feel like I committed murder. How dare you say that you are not judging. The second you call someone a murderer, you are placing a huge judgement. Try wearing somebody else’s shoes before you get on your high horse and condemn their actions.
Katie,
I know that you feel that abortion is murder, and yet by saying that you ARE attacking everyone who has ever had to make that terrible decision. By saying that abortion is murder, you are calling them all murderers when you have no idea where they have been or what they have gone through. So when someone earlier asked that the pro-life people stop slinging words like murder around, they were asking you to stop calling them murderers when they feel that they have done nothing wrong. And also, for the pro-choice people: go to hell isn’t an answer and doen’t get us anywhere. In order to persuade someone you don’t insult them and say that what they believe is wrong–we can just hope to better illuminate them of our beliefs and maybe together we can all search for the truth instead of creating hatred of others for having a slightly different belief system.
The real question here is what defines a human life? How do we know wheter a fetus can feel or not? When does a fertilized egg become a human? Are sentience and intellect codependent or independent of each other?
Also, Katie I am curious to see how you do handle the question of adoption. Just because you have carried the baby to term doesn’t mean their life will automatically be golden by putting them in an orphanage. Our child care system is overrun and many orphans do not recieve proper care or a good home. Is that really a better alternative to aborting the child before we even know if they can feel or think? Plus, like Melodie said adoption homes are not magical, and not many people can afford adoption. Also, like Jean said the mother’s mood during pregnancy will affect the outcome of the child. Do you really want a bunch of depressed mothers carrying children around only to give them up for adoption where chances are high that they will grow up to be angry, voilent people?
Hatie Katie,
At least Katie is bothering to see your point of view, and is trying to understand where you’re coming from. You haven’t done much except condemn her statements and restate old arguments that she already addressed (did you even read her posts, or were you so angry that you just went ahead to the comment-box to insult her?) She is making some really solid points that you’re not even acknowledging, while she recognizes even the shakiest points you’ve made (you have made some really good points too though, just not in a dignified way that would make me want to listen to you). Learn how to debate! Read shades_of_grey’s posts, because that person also argues admirably and seems to lean more toward your side of the issue.
That being said, I think it’s a lot easier to talk about abortion on a statistical-level, but when it comes to the individual, there should be no judgment unless one has the ability to completely know or trade places with the woman in question…which, you know, they don’t.
I do believe in agency, and I don’t believe that abortion is a purely black-and-white topic (what is?), but I can’t rationalize my way out of believing that if not for outside interference, that amoeba-type fetus would most likely become a human being (unless a miscarriage happened, or something else). To me, a human is still human, whether fully developed or not. I don’t think it’s right to say that they don’t even get a chance to try.
Also, please don’t assume that I come from a sheltered background. My own life has involved Satanic Ritual Abuse from ages 2-5, and varying types of continued abuse all throughout (physical, sexual, and otherwise). It has not been easy, but it hasn’t changed the way I feel about the issue.
I’ll now use one of your own arguments, Hatie Katie: You don’t know what it’s like. You’ve already existed. You got to experience wonderful things and terrible, tragic things. It’s easy to say “sure, I’d rather not exist if…(if it would relieve my mother of the anguish she felt when she knew she was pregnant with me, if it meant I would never have to have gone through this pain, whatever)” when you don’t know what it’s like to not be given a chance to do any of it at all. To me, sorrow is a part of life, and can not make it less beautiful, unless one chooses to let it. Despite difficulties and sorrows, nobody on earth knows what it’s like never to have been given a chance to feel and experience these things in the first place. It’s kind of silly to use the “you don’t know what it’s like” argument when you yourself can’t possibly comprehend the place of the child. Katie comes a lot closer to understanding your situation than you come to understanding the unborn baby’s.
I do NOT condemn other potential-mothers for their choice to abort. However, I would like to say that on my own individual basis, I could not live well with myself if I knew I had deprived somebody of the most precious thing there is; the chance to live.
Okay, thank you someone.
But I am not trying to call them murderers, either, I believe it to be murder, but under our current legal system it is not murder. If it were me committing an abortion I would believe myself a murderer, but how can I condemn anybody else as a murderer when it is not legally murder? How can I condemn someone else on an issue where there is certainly a grey area? Honestly I do not look on a mother who aborted the same way I look on a murderer, even if I do believe what they did constitutes murder. Once again I say that I believe the act to be murder, but I do not condemn or call names. I have never once said that an aborter is the equal of a murderer.
We don’t know, and that’s the real point, if we don’t know I don’t know how anybody can possibly allow themselves to destroy that fetus who could possibly feel something, who could possibly have some sense of being, who without outside influence would probably become a full term human being. Like I said, the one exception should be if the mother’s life is in danger by the pregnancy, which happens, because likely, if it is going to endanger the mother the baby will also be at high risk, and it would be a waste of a human life if two were to die so that one might be born and neither survived the process. Also if the mother doesn’t survive birth, even with modern medicine, and particularly in the past, the baby has a drastically reduced chance of survival.
For those who address the depression, to be quite honest, I’m closer to understanding that then you would like to believe. My life is not as easy as you would like to believe. I have been depressed, and I am on antidepressants. Honestly, I cannot say that it would not affect something in the child, but I can say my mother has been depressed her entire life. She has a problem where her body simply does not produce enough serotonin, probably because she grew up in Russia where they do not get so much sunlight, as a country they have extremely high rates of depression due to the long winter. She came off the antidepressants to have my brother and I because it’s not good for the baby during pregnancy. So I can only assume it was not easy for her to be depressed for 9 months, but she made it, and in addition besides her serotonin problems being passed to me, my brother and I never had developmental problems. And neither of us has more than a normal temper, I mean mine’s a bad temper, but it runs in the family on both sides, so one of us was bound to get it. So to be quite honest I don’t quite believe that argument because I am an example of where depression does not hurt the fetus in the womb. It may not be to the same extent as a someone who was raped, but it still depression and my mother’s is very bad when she’s not on medicine. To be quite honest I respect her for that quite a lot.
As for adoption, I admit the system is not perfect, there aren’t a lot of guarantees. But honestly, newborn babies are quite a prized commodity, there are plenty of people who have the money to have children and are unable to, despite their desire to. I don’t believe that newborn babies that go up for adoption immediately do not get adopted. Well at least in developed countries, if we’re talking about the third world it’s a little different. But think about it, even though the adoption system is bad, it’s still better than a lot of people’s lives in third world countries, and those people are still living. You’re getting regular meals, clothing, a house, and an education. Perhaps it’s not the same quality as the rest of the general population of the, I’m going to say US since that’s where I personally live. But if you think about it, living in the adoption system in the US, even if the quality of life is not as good as the general population of the US is probably better than the average person of the world. I just looked it up, the average person of the world makes less than $12000 a year and is a Chinese 28 year old male. But, even for a child in the adoption system, more than $12000 a year is spent to care for them. Put it into perspective a little.
Just as a quick add on, I found an article from 2002 regarding international adoption which stated this:
One reason for the rise of international adoptions is the dwindling supply of adoptable children within the United States.1 Increased access to contraception, the availability of legal abortion, decreases in the teen birth rate, and reduced social stigma surrounding unmarried parenting are among the reasons that there are fewer U.S.-born children available for adoption. Some demographers also point to the postponement of marriage and childbearing as fueling the demand for adopted children. Women in their 30s or 40s are more likely to encounter problems getting pregnant and carrying a pregnancy to term than younger women, and some turn to adoption to have the child they want.
Unmarried American mothers are no longer a common source of children for adoption. Although the percentage of births to unmarried women has increased dramatically since the 1970s, and accounted for one-third of all U.S. births in 2000, many unmarried mothers now keep their children or transfer their children’s legal custody to relatives rather than put them up for adoption. Young teenage mothers are less likely to keep their babies, but the birth rate for young teens has fallen steadily since 1991, according to the National Center for Health Statistics.
Which does support my statement, basically what the article said is that parents want to adopt so badly that when newborn babies do not tend to come up as much, they tend to look internationally to find babies to adopt. Newborns, it seems, do tend to get adopted, people want newborn babies even if they have to go internationally to get them.
Also, I found another article, not an American article, but in the UK it costs per year 35,000 pounds to support a child in the adoption system. That is far more than the world average of less than $12,000 of income. So once again, put it into perspective, that child in the adoption system is getting far more care than the average person of the world, and he’s still living.
okay, the fact that you are okay with dogs and cats being put down because they are not going to have any great effect on this earth? But it kills you to put your dogs down. I will tell you that through everything my dog that i have and ones I’ve had in the past have prevented family members from having a sezuire while standing up, has protected me and my mother from someone breaking into my house, that would be considered saving our lives and many other animals do that same thing. So its okay to choose to kill a dog but not a fetus? I will also tell you that I had to choose to abort and it was very hard. You say its murder but you have no idea what we go through when we have to make that decision and when someone posts their secret on here to release that anxiety of holding it in you have to say that to them. You have no idea how hard it is to make that decision but also choosing adoption wouldn’t have worked for me because I worked at a job that would not give me paid days to go to the doctor and I had to lift heavy boxes and such and could not have done my job. Yes I understand that the parents that I may or not may not be able to find during my pregnancy would pay the medical costs but they wouldn’t pay for my rent and all my bills while I had no job in order to give birth to the baby. Everyone has a different story and yes its hard to get an abortion but what makes it harder is assholes like you that sit back and call us murders for what we have done. You have no right to judge us or our decisions unless you have lived everyday of our lives.
Why would you say that you don’t look at them as a murderer but say its murder? How does that make any sense?
Dogs and cats are precious things, I love my dogs, and yes they do have some effect, but it is not the same thing as killing a human being.
I understand it is a difficult decision, I understand that everybody has their reasons that they could do nothing else but abort, but that does not mean I believe it to be right.
Calling an act murder, and condemning someone as a murderer are two totally different things. I am saying if I committed that act I would view myself as a murderer, but I am not calling anybody a murderer. I have not ever used the word murderer to describe anybody.
I hear the “What if your mother had aborted you?” argument all the time. The fact is this: if she had you’d be dead. You would not think or feel. You would not exist so you would not care.
I agree with AKA. The “What if your mother had aborted you?” argument is RIDICULOUS.
You wouldn’t exist. You wouldn’t have been born. You wouldn’t be capable of thought. You wouldn’t care. You wouldn’t be aware. You would not question,”What if I wasn’t aborted?” You would not wonder, “What would I have done in life?”
Most adults’ earliest memories are from three-four years old and on.
If my mother had aborted me– well that would’ve been the end of it. It’s not like I remember my time in the womb or my birth. I wouldn’t have spoken, I wouldn’t have thought, I wouldn’t be capable of self-reflection, I wouldn’t have been born.
“What if your mother had aborted you?”
Obviously, I wouldn’t be thinking so this question would mean nothing.
those of you with the accusatory tone. you have no idea what it’s like to be this person. there is nothing that justifies you assuming you know what their situation was, or who they were. there is nothing that justifies you looking does your nose and condemning someone you don’t know, telling them that they disgust you, accusing them of murder, and ranting on and on as if you have never done something wrong or would never in the future. in your crusade you completely forget about the humanity of the mother. caught up in all your accusations, you might feel justified doing that. but you’re not. who are you to condemn? who are you to judge this woman so worthless? you take up your sword to be a white knight for a child that has never known existence, life, or pain, and you make this woman your enemy, and you feel no regret ripping her to pieces. shame on you.
I only date girls with pretty feet too.
Euthanizing a dog or cat because their prognosis is detrimental, the owner cannot afford further treatment, predicted low survival rate: humane.
Aborting a child because their prognosis is detrimental, the parent cannot afford to maintain the pregnancy or subsequential lifetime of costs, predicted low survival rate: murder.
There’s so much sense being made here, I just can’t handle it.
Anyone who does not see the good in abortion are extremely closed minded.
I had an abortion at 19. I was forced into it and have never gotten over it. 1 and 1/2 later my friend gave her baby up for adoption. She has a good relationship with the adopted family. I do not judge the first secret nor do I judge anyone who has had an abortion, they had their reasons. Now If you have never been in that position then you have no idea what it is like and have no right to say either way about it.